(01-29-2008) U2 manager 'wants end to piracy' - BBC News*

[cydewaze]

Originally posted by MrBrau1 Do you really think someone steals an album at 192 kbps with no DRM, then goes and buys a copy protected version at 128kbps?

No, which is why I never said that. Perhaps you quoted the wrong post?

And for the record, I also don't think that a 12 year old kid with 2000 mp3s in his collection would have dropped $2000 to buy them all on iTunes either, and he certainly wouldn't have dropped $10k to buy the CDs to get them.

Anyway, I was a bit off in my last post about online sales being up by the same amount that CD sales are down. Online sales are actually up waaaay more than CD sales are down.

CD sales down 9.2%, but online sales are up 45%

[MrBrau1]

Originally posted by cydewaze No, which is why I never said that. Perhaps you quoted the wrong post? [/url]

Um, ok.

So, if stolen music doesn't translate into CD sales, and it doesn't translate into online sales, how do you feel about the point that stealing music is an exploratory tool used to guide future purchases?

[cydewaze]

Originally posted by MrBrau1 So, if stolen music doesn't translate into CD sales, and it doesn't translate into online sales, how do you feel about the point that stealing music is an exploratory tool used to guide future purchases?

Ahh, a "what if"! I usually love what ifs, but the problem with this one is that it assumes both "ifs" as fact. Since we have no way of knowing whether stolen music leads to sales or not, your "what if" is nothing more than a trap to either get me to 1) agree with you, or 2) say that I support the thieves.

How about this one: "If banning computers stops all child pornography, then how do you feel about banning computers?"

Fun stuff, eh?

For what it's worth, I don't have a very strong opinion as to whether illegal downloads lead to more sales. For some people they might, and for others they probably won't. I know I recently bought a Coldplay CD as a result of hearing a song from it as background music for a Youtube video (and I'm completely capable of capturing that music in mp3 format, so I could have easily had it for free), so there's an example of sampling leading to purchase.

But I don't believe that the 12 year old kid with the 2000 illegal songs is going to purchase much of that (as I stated in a previous post) because he obviously doesn't have two grand lying around.

My point has never been that piracy leads to sales. Someone else said that. My point is that you can't assume that every stolen song is a lost sale. You also can't assume that just because CD sales are down, the music industry is in trouble. There's just no evidence to support that.

Overall music purchases (counting CDs, downloads, DVDs, etc combined) were up for 2007 over 2006. Overall sales at the end of last year were higher than ever. I don't see how that equals artists or record companies going broke.

[MrBrau1]

How do ISP's police Child Pornography?

Are they morally obligated to?

[Bonoho]

Originally posted by MrBrau1 If downloading leads to sales how are CD sales down year, after year. All this exploring should be leading to an explosion of new cd purchases.

Perhaps not cd purchases, but purchases through iTunes, etc. Either way, the bands profit. CD's will go the way of the cassette tape. It's just the way it is. If someone is interested in U2 and downloads a few songs, say through Limewire, and the songs really get to them, they'll buy. I've tried Limewire, it can be alot of work. If you have the funds to have an album downloaded and backed up through iTunes, that's the way you should go. Paul McG is rich, as is the band. They shouldn't complain about 'free' downloads.

[MrBrau1]

Originally posted by Bonoho Perhaps not cd purchases, but purchases through iTunes, etc. Either way, the bands profit. CD's will go the way of the cassette tape. It's just the way it is. If someone is interested in U2 and downloads a few songs, say through Limewire, and the songs really get to them, they'll buy. I've tried Limewire, it can be alot of work. If you have the funds to have an album downloaded and backed up through iTunes, that's the way you should go. Paul McG is rich, as is the band. They shouldn't complain about 'free' downloads.

Hmmm?

Here is an example I noted last nite in another thread.

Mininova currently has a "Complete Beatles" torrent.

360kbps

--Please Please Me
--With the Beatles
--A Hard Day's Night
--Beatles For Sale
--Help!
--Rubber Soul
--Revolver
--Yellow Submarine
--Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
--Abbey Road
--Magical Mystery Tour
--The Beatles (White Album)
--Let It Be
--The Beatles 1962-1965 (Greatest Hits Vol. 1)
--The Beatles 1967-1970 (Greatest Hits Vol. 2)
--Past Masters, Volume One
--Past Masters, Volume Two
--Anthology, Vol. 1
--Anthology, Vol. 2
--Anthology, Vol. 3
--Live at the BBC
--The Early Tapes (With Tony Sheridan)
--The Decca Tapes
--The Beatles 1
--Love Songs
--In The Beginning

444 people are downloading it. 1034 sharing.

How many Beatles albums do you think those 444 people are going to buy?

How many of those 1034 seeders are sharing rips from original copies?

Seem slightly selfish to me. To need the ENTIRE discography of a band to determine if you like them or not.

Whether the rights holder to the Beatles music is rich or not is irrelevant. Stealing from poor people is wrong, as is stealing from rich people.

[cydewaze]

Originally posted by MrBrau1 How do ISP's police Child Pornography?

They don't.

Originally posted by MrBrau1 Whether the rights holder to the Beatles music is rich or not is irrelevant. Stealing from poor people is wrong, as is stealing from rich people.

Ok, so what's next. What in your opinion is the best course of action from here? What should be done about all this?

[MrBrau1]

Originally posted by MrBrau1 Are they morally obligated to?

why did you avoid this one?

[MrBrau1]

Originally posted by cydewaze They don't. Ok, so what's next. What in your opinion is the best course of action from here? What should be done about all this?

nothing is going to happen.

This is it.

Downloaders stuffing their faces with as much stolen music as they can get their hands on.

And the RIAA going after people for thousands of $.

[cydewaze]

Originally posted by MrBrau1 why did you avoid this one?

Because moral obligation is not for me to decide. And whether or not ISPs are obligated to police child porn doesn't have anything to do with music, other than they're both illegal things that happen online.

The difference is that when people are convicted of child porn, it's a criminal offense, so they get have the luxury of due process. File sharing cases are not tried in criminal court, so there burden of proof is not the same. If piracy cases were prosecuted like child porn cases, almost no one would ever be sued for piracy, and that says something.

Originally posted by MrBrau1 nothing is going to happen. This is it. Downloaders stuffing their faces with as much stolen music as they can get their hands on. And the RIAA going after people for thousands of $.

Fair enough.

[politico]

HEy guys,

Has anyone seen U2 3D yet??

[cydewaze]

Originally posted by politico HEy guys, Has anyone seen U2 3D yet??

I have. It's awesome. We're gonna see it again soon.

First post? Welcome to the forum!

[Bonochick]

Originally posted by politico HEy guys, Has anyone seen U2 3D yet??

I haven't seen it yet, but I plan to. There is a lot of discussion in the Everything You Know Is Wrong forum that you'd probably be interested in.

Welcome!

[cydewaze]

Originally posted by Bonochick I haven't seen it yet, but I plan to.

omg, I can't believe you of all people haven't seen it yet

[U2girl]

I won't be surprised if this is what it will ultimately come down to, ISP banning people who downloaded music and/or bands leaving major labels and start new deals without the middle man.
And the musicians have a right to have a negative opinion on illegal downloading.