(01-29-2008) U2 manager 'wants end to piracy' - BBC News*

[hippy]

U2 manager 'wants end to piracy'

The manager of rock band U2 has urged internet service providers (ISPs) to help end illegal music downloads, according to The Hollywood Reporter.

Paul McGuinness called for policies on disconnecting those who acquired tracks illegally, using a speech in France to urge governments to take action.

McGuinness said ISPs had "been at our trough for too long", and should share the revenues they made out of music.

France is working toward a legal system that promotes a similar policy.

McGuinness told the Midem conference in Cannes that it was time for artists to stand up against what he called the "shoddy, careless and downright dishonest way they have been treated in the digital age".

Blame

He spread the blame between record labels and governments who "created a thieves' charter" by agreeing that ISPs should not be responsible for what passed along their networks.

"If you were a magazine advertising stolen cars, handling the money for stolen cars and seeing to the delivery of stolen cars, the police would soon be at your door," he said.

"That's no different to an ISP, but they say they can't do anything about it. If you steal a laptop from a store or don't pay for your broadband service, you'll soon be cut off and nicked."

In October, the British government called on ISPs to take a "more activist role" in the problem of illegal file-sharing.

But the Internet Service Providers Association has always maintained that it cannot be held responsible for illegal peer-to-peer traffic because it is "merely a conduit" of such material.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7215226.stm

[Carek1230]

No matter what they might do in a battle against piracy, it will always be there. It's not going to completely go away.

[Lally1011]

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

If ISP are held accountable, this will set a new precedence for everything else that isn't legal on the web.

I smell more ammo for the ongoing debate to implement an Internet tax.

[Carek1230]

taxes we don't need no more stinkin taxes.

[vociti]

Here is my question. Instead of making the ISP responsible, why can't they just shut down sites like Limewire? You take down Limewire, and keep policing sites like Limewire, the average person would have to buy their music. You can't stop people from downloading music. However, if you could stop the average joe from downloading music, that would help a lot. Plus, I think the bands should speak to their fan base and make people understand that downloading music without paying for it really hurts the music industry. Shows like Cribs do no good either and a lot of that is an illusion.

Last note, releasing a professional album is just too darn expensive. Everyone wants a piece of the pie. There needs to be a way to release professional, well produced music without it costing so much.

[Lally1011]

No doubt that artists deserve more. I found this interesting article with the breakdown of who gets how much in the business. It also sites sources as well as some some artists that were exceptions to the rule:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=200983


But giving them more won't address this issue that Paul brings up. It's really up to the country hosting the websites because it all comes down to the form of government. Look at China.

[Harry Vest]

Shut up Paul...you stinkin rich ###!!!
Geez, of all the things to complain about in this stage of your "career". Just shut up already pal.

[grant72]

pm:
"Kids don’t pay $25 a month for broadband just to share their photos, do their homework and email their pals"

what a moron this guy is. so the only three things you can do on PC are homework, share photo's and download illegal music Paul? are you saying everyone who has high speed has it to download illegal music? idiot.

i'll tell you what, i have no problems downloading some music first for a listen before i go out and pay for it on itunes or buy the cd. they sure as hell dont play the songs on the radio anymore. not in new york at least.

[grant72]

i'm sure most of these bands make up for loss money on album sales in their ticket prices? what was the last U2 ticket $190.00 a seat....oh i forgot you can get floor seats for $50....hahaha

[vociti]

Originally posted by Harry Vest Shut up Paul...you stinkin rich ###!!! Geez, of all the things to complain about in this stage of your "career". Just shut up already pal.

You are right, paul is wealthy. However, only people like him can help make an actual change. Plus, he has the right to bitch. No matter how big and successful a band may be, everyone should still be paid for their art and that's the bottom line. A band, big or small, is a business. Google charges for advertising, NBA charges for tickets and merchandise. They would all be up and arms of people were stealing advertising spots and sneaking into games without paying. Bands like U2 are not effected by pirating. However, I can assure you that every band that is fresh on the scene certainly is. I'm really excited to see Amazon.com's new music service that's going to compete against iTunes. DRM free music, like it should be. Then, the next step is reducing the COG of getting a band produced, recorded, and on the radio. Songs should be 50 cents.

[vociti]

Originally posted by grant72 i'm sure most of these bands make up for loss money on album sales in their ticket prices? what was the last U2 ticket $190.00 a seat....oh i forgot you can get floor seats for $50....hahaha

Bands like U2 are in a different leauge, different ball game. Also, you can't imagaine the cost behind putting on a concert like that. Our friend Steve used to be a member of the team that constructed all u2's setup. The price is insane. Setup, employeess, freight. It's unreal. Anyways, U2 band members are only making about 15-20 million. Hell, many hollywood actors make that in just one movie and they don't have to tour the world.

[Rachel D.]

Take away someone's internet connection for downloading music? Since when did Paul join the Gestapo?

[cydewaze]

Wow, this article shows just how little Paul understands about technology. Holding ISPs responsible for what passes along their networks is akin to holding the Department of Transportation responsible for drunk driving and stolen vehicles, just because both of these things "pass along their streets".

What the record companies need to do is to build a business model that works within the new way that people are buying music, rather than using brute force methods to punish customers (and yes, even people who illegally download music still purchase it).

Originally posted by vociti Here is my question. Instead of making the ISP responsible, why can't they just shut down sites like Limewire?

Because 1) there are legitimate uses for programs like Limewire, and 2) Limewire isn't a service, but rather a program, and there are countless such (legal) programs out there.

Did you know that for the RIAA to sue you, you don't even have to be sharing music? If you're on something like Limewire, using it legally, the RIAA has the right to scan your PC and look for music. If they find it, they sue you, even if you have Limewire set to disallow file sharing. This is why they sue you in civil court and not criminal court, because the burden of proof is much lower. To make it even worse, none of the money they get from lawsuits ever goes to the artists. It just goes back into the legal machine to fund the next round of law suits.

The whole thing is greed-driven and has gotten out of hand. Instead of punishing customers, they need to adapt.

[MrBrau1]

Originally posted by cydewaze The whole thing is greed-driven and has gotten out of hand. Instead of punishing customers, they need to adapt.

uhh, the downloaders are pretty damn greedy as well.

[vociti]

I really like what MrBrau1 posted. The downloaders who download illegal music are greedy too. They all want the largest music collection on earth without paying a dime for it. All of my friends who download off Limewire have this mentality that it's so cool to have a 500gb music collection. Oh, but they don't want to pay anything for that collection. Isn't that greed? It doesn't make sense.

All I hear is greed, greed, greed. Usually, I hear this from people that are not wealthy. I'm not denying that there is some pathetic greedy people out there. However, the American dream, or the French dream, or the German dream, is not working in a cube for 50 years. The dream is becoming wealthy and most are not. There is nothing wrong with the desire, pursuit to wealth. As long as you don't hurt other people, steal from other people along the way, a little greed is necessary because let me tell you from first hand experience, starting a successful company IS NOT EASY and you need to have an underlying reason for even attempting it to begin with. The same goes for being a rock star.

Record labels need to adapt. I'm all for that and you are right. However, that still doesn't make downloading free music right. Second, the fact that limewire is used for legal purposes is more of a lawyer response because I'd be willing to bet that 99% of Limewire is used for non-legal downloads. Everyone I know who uses it (which is a lot of people) only use it to download free music. Just because a few people actually use it for legal purposes doesn't mean it still shouldn't be shut down.

And yes, some of this is about greed, but it's also about practical business. Record labels and publishing companies are necessary if an artist or band wants to even have a chance for the big time. It would be like owning a company without financial backing, and without a marketing / sales department. Running a successful band (just like running a successful company) means you need to rely on others with experience in their respected fields to help 'you' become more successful. Doing it all by yourself rarely works, both in music and in business.

Artist should make money from their art, you can't argue that. And, the better your material is and the more popular you are, you should become wealthy. Just like a sports athlete, just like a movie star, it's no different. Even to the average joe working in a cubicle. Would you bust your ass while you're company is telling you 'well, we'll have to take half your salary because of theft, so you will make 20k instead of 40k.' Nope, no one would.

You see, I truly understand that the music industry needs to change some what, etc. However, let's not look away from the fact that people should pay for music. And bands should be compensated for it. Every time I say this, why does it always go back to record label greed. Yes, that does exist, but how do you change record label greed without hurting the artist because by stealing music, the artist are the last ones to receive the paycheck. So, guess who is getting screwed the most? The bottom line is artist should get paid for their work. Downloading free music will not take the greed away or solve anything.